Disappointed In Wetsounds Stereo Performance

[sksurfing]

Last August I purchased a new (old inventory) 2013 F21 Tomcat. The boat has the standard Wet Sounds stereo package with the additional amp and 2 tower speakers.

 

6 in boat speakers - I believe they are the XS-650, but not certain.

1 subwoofer - XS-10FA, mounted in sealed box directly behind driver's seat

2 tower speakers - Rev8's

Amp 1 - HT-6

Amp 2 - HT-1

 

So, based on what I have heard from others about Wet Sounds, I had very high hopes for this system. However, when I played it for the first time, I couldn't have been more disappointed. Through some changes in the settings of the Clarion M502 head unit, I got it to sound a bit better. I had a closer look at the settings on the amps and noticed the gains were turned way down. I increased them a bit, but the performance is still not even close to what I expected. I decided to take the boat to a friend who owns a local stereo shop. He added a Wet Sounds Blue Tooth Volume Control (WW-BT-VC) since the Clarion M502 doesn't work with my iphone 5S?????? I also had him look at how the system was installed to see if we could improve upon the sound. On top of poor sound, there is also quite a bit of whining through the speakers, which I wanted him to fix. After a full day of troubleshooting, he told me that some boats are inherently prone to the whining. He added ground loop isolators and checked out the wiring / grounds, but the whining is still there. He also adjusted the amp settings for best performance, but these changes resulted in increased whining through the system.

 

I have a friend with a 2013 Mastercraft X10, and his JL Audio system sounds 100x better than mine. I'm not just referring to volume..............I mean sound quality as well. Plus, he has zero whining through the system.

 

Anyone else have similar experiences? Please help!!!...........I would love to figure this out.

 

[Shawndoggy]

MB stereos are pretty poorly configured, but the parts are usually pretty good.  

 

sub: there's no denying it, a free air sub is going to suck donkey balls 9 times out of 10.  Just the nature of the setup.  You will be much much happier if you build a proper box and stick your sub under the helm.  A modest 12 in a 1 ft3 box will be worlds better than what's down there now.  The HT 1 should do 600w, which is plenty for a modest setup.

 

amps: That HT6 is an OK amp, but it's probably trying to do too much.  If you just use that amp to power the cabin speakers, you'll be happy.  That would also include pulling the bow speakers off of head unit power, where I will give you a 99% chance they are wired now.  

 

Then what you need to do is get another amp for the Rev8s.  There are lots and lots of choices.  Arc Audio KS 300.2 or 300.4, JL audio XD 400/4, Wetsounds Syn 2 or Syn 4, JL audio HD 750/1.... the list goes on and on.  Point being the tower speakers need their own separate amp.

 

Regarding the engine noise in the speakers, that's really about following wiring best practices.  All stereo components should be wired in common.  Sometimes this means essentially pulling out all of your power and ground wiring and re-doing it.  If you wire all of the power and ground correctly, you should be noise free.  

[SheDago]

I'm thinking the 6's that come standard are the xs-65's, mine all blew when I upgraded the amp on them. They are now replaced with 650's and they sound a lot better. 

 

Shawndoggy is right about all of it, DEFINITLY add amps to your tower speakers, Arc I think is the way to go. And replacing the head unit may be a good idea too.

[sksurfing]

I think I will start with adding an amp for the Rev8's. Seems like a logical and inexpensive first step.

 

As for the sub..............mine is installed in a small sealed box. Would I be better off with no box at all and leave it in the same location? I really don't want to move the location, as I will be left with a 9-1/2" hole behind the seat. Or, can I buy a better sub and utilize my existing location and sealed box?

[steve142]

I have the HT6 powering just the cabin, an HT2 powering the sub, then added an exile amp to power 4 XM9 tower speakers.

[Greeko]

The inboat speakers are Xs-65s...very ...plain.  The HT amplifiers...aren't very good and you can hear a lot of whining through them because they are a cheaper Class D amp. 

 

I redid my 2012 Mb F21 with new amps, removed the deck and redid all the power wiring.  There was still a bit of whining when the engine was running but it was minimal.... I think the HT amps are known to amplify noise like that...

 

I would use the same box the sub is in, just seal up the box with PL/Sealant.

 

To be perfectly honest the speakers in the boat will perform much better when you change the amplification!

[MidnightMax]

All good advice here..

that FA 10" sub is a POS. you would be much better off to put a pair of 10's or a 12 in a properly built box under the helm or maybe in the observers compartment as some have done.

 

as for the whining, Shawndoggy nailed it. its all about proper and consistent wiring of the power and ground to ALL of your stereo components. for the best results use the proper size wire and make sure that every component is powered and grounded from the same point. this includes power and ground from the head unit and 420.

[Wylietunes]

Last August I purchased a new (old inventory) 2013 F21 Tomcat. The boat has the standard Wet Sounds stereo package with the additional amp and 2 tower speakers.

 

6 in boat speakers - I believe they are the XS-650, but not certain.

1 subwoofer - XS-10FA, mounted in sealed box directly behind driver's seat

2 tower speakers - Rev8's

Amp 1 - HT-6

Amp 2 - HT-1

 

So, based on what I have heard from others about Wet Sounds, I had very high hopes for this system. However, when I played it for the first time, I couldn't have been more disappointed. Through some changes in the settings of the Clarion M502 head unit, I got it to sound a bit better. I had a closer look at the settings on the amps and noticed the gains were turned way down. I increased them a bit, but the performance is still not even close to what I expected. I decided to take the boat to a friend who owns a local stereo shop. He added a Wet Sounds Blue Tooth Volume Control (WW-BT-VC) since the Clarion M502 doesn't work with my iphone 5S?????? I also had him look at how the system was installed to see if we could improve upon the sound. On top of poor sound, there is also quite a bit of whining through the speakers, which I wanted him to fix. After a full day of troubleshooting, he told me that some boats are inherently prone to the whining. He added ground loop isolators and checked out the wiring / grounds, but the whining is still there. He also adjusted the amp settings for best performance, but these changes resulted in increased whining through the system.

 

I have a friend with a 2013 Mastercraft X10, and his JL Audio system sounds 100x better than mine. I'm not just referring to volume..............I mean sound quality as well. Plus, he has zero whining through the system.

 

Anyone else have similar experiences? Please help!!!...........I would love to figure this out.

Ive installed just about every wet sounds speaker on just about all of their amps. I have also had experience with the wet sounds gear on MB boats. I can say with out a shadow of doubt, the problem is not the equipment, but how its utilized, setup, wired and tuned. I will also have to greatly disagree with the comment about the HT amps creating noise. Amplifying noise yes, as thats the job of any amp. Seriously, if an amp didnt amplify noise, we would never get music out of them.

 

You need to find someone with marine audio experience, especially one thats versed in boats with dual battery banks. MB does not get it and I feel that cause of the whine is a result of how the OEM system was wired and now made worse with a BT that was likely incorrectly wired in. 

 

2nd, can you confirm that thats an HT1 and not an HT2? And which amp is actually power the sub, towers and in-boats. I was in a 2015 a few months back, that had the tower amp feed but the head-units sub chnl RCA outputs. 

 

I would hope the 10FA IB sub is not in an enclosure, as its not designed for a small space. But, ive yet to see an enclosure, except on the 2015's. What i have seen on most MB's, is the sub leaks air because the surface begins to radius. Again, this is MB's issue for a poor execution, not wet sounds problem. 

 

Its very common for OEM installed gear to be poorly tuned as well as gained way down, Again, not the gear manufactures fault. also, the boat manufacturer chooses what goes in the boat bast on budget. This often times leads to awesome gear being under powered.  

 

I have no doubt your disappointments can be turned around. 

[AZ_MB]

As for the sub..............mine is installed in a small sealed box. Would I be better off with no box at all and leave it in the same location? I really don't want to move the location, as I will be left with a 9-1/2" hole behind the seat. Or, can I buy a better sub and utilize my existing location and sealed box?

 

If you remove the seat cushion that is behind the sub you can reach in and notice that the side of "the box" is not enclosed.  Hence it is a free air design and changing to a better sub probably won't have any impact.  (Be careful putting your hand in there.  I cut myself on the fiberglass.)  I don't think anyone has come up with a good way to seal the area.  It's an odd shape due to the seatback angle which is why most people just add a separate box.

[sksurfing]

Thanks for all the great advice. I won't be able to get at attempting to solve some of these issues for a couple months, since I live in Saskatchewan. It's -25 degrees celcius now and won't be above freezing consistantly until atleast May. =(

 

I agree that there are likely changes that should be made to the way everything is setup. I clued into that when I started playing with the balance and fade on the head unit. Had some funny things happening. I can't recall exact details, but I think the Rev8's would go quiet if I turned the balance all the way to the right. Likewise, fading to the front didn't do what it was supposed to either. Seems to be a mess. Lol

 

Getting back to my sub issue..........I can assure all of you that it is in a sealed enclosure. I do not know how well it is sealed, but it is definitely not a free air installation. You can't see the back of the sub under the seat. It is in a carpet covered box. Looks to be the same carpet that is in all the storage compartments, and appears to be a factory install. When i look at the manual for the XS-10FA, it recommends either free air or a 1.3 cubic feet sealed enclosure.

 

Are there any diagrams for properly wiring the power and grounds? I have been doing a lot of reading online, but haven't seen a good diagram that compares to my setup. Seems like the amps should be powered and grounded directly to tge battery, and the head unit and bluetooth should be powered and ground to the amp terminals. Does that sound right?

 

Hopefully I will get this all working well. I absolutely love the boat, but hate the stereo.

[sksurfing]

If you remove the seat cushion that is behind the sub you can reach in and notice that the side of "the box" is not enclosed.  Hence it is a free air design and changing to a better sub probably won't have any impact.  (Be careful putting your hand in there.  I cut myself on the fiberglass.)  I don't think anyone has come up with a good way to seal the area.  It's an odd shape due to the seatback angle which is why most people just add a separate box.

Looks like I may need to look at tge sub enclosure a bit closer. Maybe it isn't sealed.

[WakeDirt]

Thanks for all the great advice. I won't be able to get at attempting to solve some of these issues for a couple months, since I live in Saskatchewan. It's -25 degrees celcius now and won't be above freezing consistantly until atleast May. =(

 

I agree that there are likely changes that should be made to the way everything is setup. I clued into that when I started playing with the balance and fade on the head unit. Had some funny things happening. I can't recall exact details, but I think the Rev8's would go quiet if I turned the balance all the way to the right. Likewise, fading to the front didn't do what it was supposed to either. Seems to be a mess. Lol

 

Getting back to my sub issue..........I can assure all of you that it is in a sealed enclosure. I do not know how well it is sealed, but it is definitely not a free air installation. You can't see the back of the sub under the seat. It is in a carpet covered box. Looks to be the same carpet that is in all the storage compartments, and appears to be a factory install. When i look at the manual for the XS-10FA, it recommends either free air or a 1.3 cubic feet sealed enclosure.

 

Are there any diagrams for properly wiring the power and grounds? I have been doing a lot of reading online, but haven't seen a good diagram that compares to my setup. Seems like the amps should be powered and grounded directly to tge battery, and the head unit and bluetooth should be powered and ground to the amp terminals. Does that sound right?

 

Hopefully I will get this all working well. I absolutely love the boat, but hate the stereo.

All great advise, everyone is spot on.  First step, is get a WS 420.  No QUESTIONS.  Then get a nice tower amp, I love to cut corners, but don't here.   I run a Arc 600.2, if you go that route you can always add another set of rev 8s on the same amp.  I have found them used for $200-300.  << OUTSTANDING CUSTOMER SERVICE.    Put the Ht2 briged to the sub, and have all the inboats on the Ht6.  If you want/need more bass I went with two JLw3 10s sealed at the driver's feet with another Arc 600.2.   Sounds great...very happy.  **Yes I know I am running 2 subs on one amp and a third ten on another amp, boat still floats for now**.  I also upped my stereo battery bank and made one large common ground to the transmission and wired everything stereo wise to one battery bank, still have a tiny whine in my in boats due the HT-6....Greeko finally pinpointed it, i thought it was the deck perhaps (which i wired to the stereo bank)  

[MidnightMax]

 

 

Are there any diagrams for properly wiring the power and grounds? I have been doing a lot of reading online, but haven't seen a good diagram that compares to my setup. Seems like the amps should be powered and grounded directly to tge battery, and the head unit and bluetooth should be powered and ground to the amp terminals. Does that sound right?

 

Here is my suggestion and this is how I have wired my stereo. I have zero noise in my system.

 

from your house battery, run both a positive and negative "trunk line" straight off the battery to a pair of distribution blocks. The trunk line should be a large gauge cable, preferably 0 Gauge. On the positive line you will want to install a master fuse or circuit breaker (150 amp) within 12 to 18" of the connection to the battery. from that point continue the trunk lines to the amp distribution blocks. These should be located somewhere close to the amps. The distribution blocks should be a single (or maybe double depending on different models)  0 gauge input and between 2 to 4 each 4 gauge outputs. It sounds like you might be adding additional amp(s) somewhere down the road so having the extra outputs will accommodate expansion.

 

Next run 4 gauge cables from the distribution blocks to the amps.

 

As a few have mentioned above and to have the best success for a low to zero noise system, it is important to run power and ground from these same distribution blocks over to the helm side for the head unit and 420. Since the head and 420 don't require very high amperage to run the cable size doesn't really need to be any larger that about 10 - 12 gauge. For this wiring I would recommend using 10-12 gauge, 3 conductor bilge wire. one conductor for the ground, one for the power, and the third is for the amplifier remote turn on wire.

 

so with the new (bilge wire) run over to the helm side, wire the red wire from the 420 and the yellow wire from the head unit to the positive lead on the bilge wire, the grounds from both units to the negative lead, and the remote turn on wires from both units to the third lead. That leaves one other wire which is the red (accessory) wire from the head unit. Couple choices here. normally this wire is wired to the ignition so that when the key is off, the stereo goes off. Since you want to have ALL the grounds and ALL the power leads going to the same place this wire should be either wired directly to the same power lead as the yellow wire (which means that the head unit can only be turned off using the power button itself on the head unit OR you could run the red wire through a simple on/off accessory switch on the dash and then to the positive lead on the bilge wire. This would allow you to turn the system off with the switch (although I don't really see the point in adding that extra switch), some people like to do it that way.

 

with this wiring scheme, all the components will be powered and grounded from the same point eliminating ground loop issues that can cause noise in the system.

 

hope this helps.

[Wylietunes]

 

 

Getting back to my sub issue..........I can assure all of you that it is in a sealed enclosure. I do not know how well it is sealed, but it is definitely not a free air installation. You can't see the back of the sub under the seat. It is in a carpet covered box. Looks to be the same carpet that is in all the storage compartments, and appears to be a factory install. When i look at the manual for the XS-10FA, it recommends either free air or a 1.3 cubic feet sealed enclosure

I think if you pulled the sub, you will find that its open to the gunwale. But before pulling it, play some hip-hop and feel around the sub to see if its leaking. We typically find that the left edge of the sub is on the radius and will not seat well. This makes the sub huff and weez and it sounds like crap. We pull them and use thick foam weather strip around the mounting flange to seal it. 

 

In the correct execution, properly power and tuned, the 10Fa is great sub. There is absolutely no reason that it cannot and will not perform on par with other 10" woofers in the same power handling class. Is it as musical? Does it have the same SQ as other 10" woofers......nope, it leans more toward the SPL side if the spectrum.

 

Lets speculate for a minute that that woofer is actually in an enclosed cavity. Depending on its estimated internal volume, I would consider swapping it for a woofer that is better suited for a small sealed enclosure. You would also need to make sure that the enclosure is actually sealed air tight. Any leaks will effect the performance.

 

 

 

 

Are there any diagrams for properly wiring the power and grounds? I have been doing a lot of reading online, but haven't seen a good diagram that compares to my setup. Seems like the amps should be powered and grounded directly to tge battery, and the head unit and bluetooth should be powered and ground to the amp terminals. Does that sound right?

The amps' B+ cables are directly connected to the battery and thats where the problem lies. The head-unit's is connected to the helm BUS. This setup will open the door for the very noise you have. If the newly installed BTVC was also terminated to the helm BUS, you would also induce noise. Having the gains too high will induce a hiss thats called, well, gain hiss. So once the basics are corrected, then you can move on to tuning. 

 

I would toss those GLI's as they are a bandaid for a fixable problem. ALL and i mean ALL audio equipment must share the same battery reference. On the MB, which uses a traditional dual battery switch, the amps' B+ cables need to be relocated from the battery to the "C" post of the switch. This pretty much means you need to rewire the amps. When I do this, I remove the two automotive glass fuse holders and replace them with a fused distribution block, then run a single 1/0 trunk line to the switch. I would also run a pair of wires around from the amps to the helm for the head-unit and BT. I would terminate this, fused of course, directly to the HT-6. This insures you have a good clean B+ and GND for the source units.   

[Shawndoggy]

This is a decent diagram (with a few notable exceptions):

 

 

Exceptions: 

 

1. The headunit (yellow wire) should get power in common with the amps, not "stock power location."

2. The EQ (red wire) should get power in common with the amps, not "power from under the helm."

3. If a switch is used like in the diagram, it should be used to turn on the stereo headunit (i.e. attached to stereo red wire).

4. The EQ should be turned on by the headunit remote wire (blue wire with white stripe... and if not available use power antenna lead)

 

All car/boat headunits have common wiring colors like the diagram below (obviously you don't want to have any speakers running off of the headunit power in your case):

 

[boogs]

Some suggested mb boats are prone to whine, I ordered my last boat no audio and did all wiring and installed all jl products and I've never ever heard any whine so I'd say it was either installation or eqpt not the boat.maybe it is prone for some reason I don't know of but if you install good stuff correctly u should never hear that noise.

[timayz]

I as well as several on here have the same setup.  

They are the 65's not the 650's unfortunately.  As I understand wetsound speakers are good and under rated. 

So I did similar to what is suggested above... 

Ran the Ht6 to ea 65 by itself.  So I am over powering them but the sound so much better. 

Ran the Ht2 to the sub by itself. Bridged @ 575 according to wetsounds. Again overpowered. 

Added a Rockford Fosgate 600x4 bridged x2 to the rev 8's. Again overpowering with close to 300w ea. 

Of course added some more 4 gauge power wires, grounds, and a breaker for proper configuration.  It is respectable now, totally different system for less than $300 added.  I am not worried about the over power situation as your not at max volume cranked all the time anyway.   

Just some suggestions for not a lot of $$.  Most people would not want the mix-matched amps. But i'm okay with it. 

 

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-mv3fcweXrPU/VPITHN7QIlI/AAAAAAAAAcI/G1yligY4W5A/w1026-h577-no/15%2B-%2B1

[David Analog]

Don't blame Wetsounds. Blame MB for the system integration and execution. Ultimately they are driven by budget.

The audio equipment is not responsible for the whine. The entire issue is within the installation process.

Any modern amplifier, Class D or whatever, has a DC to AC to DC switching power supply which makes it impossible for any AC ripple component of the boat's charging system to pass. The real problem is the equipment integration and relationship. Ground or supply loops are introduced with poor wiring schemes that allow noise to enter the audio path. Fix the wiring and fix the noise.

There isn't enough amplifier to go around. A dedicated HT-6 is just right for all six in-boat coaxials, even with an upgrade to the XS650s. An HT-1 or bridged HT-2 is just right for a variety of subwoofers. One HT-4 bridged (for single pair of Rev8s) or two HT-2s bridged (for single pair of Rev10s) is fine for a variety of single pair HLCDs. However, if you plan to add another pair of Rev8s in the future then you need a larger amplifier. In that case a Wetsounds Syn2 would be a starting point with the Wetsounds SD2 as the ideal amplifier with plenty of options in between.

The sub issue is hardest because of what MB gives you to work with. If the enclosure is truly sealed then you have to verify that it has adequate displacement for the subwoofer in use. A bit harder to do with a non standard shape. The Wetsounds motorsport 10-inch could be a better replacement as it is a true acoustic suspension woofer for a fully sealed (airtight) enclosure. For this you need an internal net displacement of .75 cu.ft. If the enclosure is not airtight then you can maintain the same WS IB woofer and open up the enclosure so that the opening is equal to or larger than the woofer's radiating surface area. Then it can vent into the boat's natural cavities while still maintaining complete front to rear isolation. Pay close attention to Mike's instructions above about sealing the woofer flange.

Along the way you will have to upgrade the DC supply cables. It would benefit you now but especially when adding power.

As the final step you need a good system tune by an audio dealer and not a boat dealer or manufacturer. Do not overlook the importance of this.

[MidnightMax]

Just take the POS WS 10" out. Get a good 12" sub, build a box and shove it under the helm, power and tune it properly, and run away laughing!

 

And you can use the hole where the old sub was for a nice convenient place to put a trash bag

[sksurfing]

Thank you all for the great information. I can hardly wait for the snow to melt, so I can start putting the advice to use.

[knanney]

When toured factory...they pretty much said we just put good components in and let people tune it.

 

I got my 2015 and sent it straight to stereo shop (chucktronics...if ur in NorCal). Added tower speakers, rewired in boat exiles, took sub out, covered sub hole with a slick black cover, then added two 12s on passenger side venting then out in walkway behind where the net would be. It's a nice way to do to really get that deep sound.

 

Here's a pic of speaker box...

 

Sounds awesome.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[boogs]

Did you have a pic of where you cut the vent? i thinking of doing sub there I did under helm last one. Where are the batteries in the 23?

[knanney]

Did you have a pic of where you cut the vent? i thinking of doing sub there I did under helm last one. Where are the batteries in the 23?

I don't. I'll get one.

 

Batteries are under pull up cushion on the port side...across from driver.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[22mini20]

If you do want to use the factory location for a sub I do recommend the jl marine 10 infinite baffle. and if you can fiberglass the factory spot better to make it sealed the jl marine marine subwoofer for enclosure will be good personally have installed many different types of marine subs and those sound the best

[22mini20]

Ive installed just about every wet sounds speaker on just about all of their amps. I have also had experience with the wet sounds gear on MB boats. I can say with out a shadow of doubt, the problem is not the equipment, but how its utilized, setup, wired and tuned. I will also have to greatly disagree with the comment about the HT amps creating noise. Amplifying noise yes, as thats the job of any amp. Seriously, if an amp didnt amplify noise, we would never get music out of them.

 

You need to find someone with marine audio experience, especially one thats versed in boats with dual battery banks. MB does not get it and I feel that cause of the whine is a result of how the OEM system was wired and now made worse with a BT that was likely incorrectly wired in.

 

2nd, can you confirm that thats an HT1 and not an HT2? And which amp is actually power the sub, towers and in-boats. I was in a 2015 a few months back, that had the tower amp feed but the head-units sub chnl RCA outputs.

 

I would hope the 10FA IB sub is not in an enclosure, as its not designed for a small space. But, ive yet to see an enclosure, except on the 2015's. What i have seen on most MB's, is the sub leaks air because the surface begins to radius. Again, this is MB's issue for a poor execution, not wet sounds problem.

 

Its very common for OEM installed gear to be poorly tuned as well as gained way down, Again, not the gear manufactures fault. also, the boat manufacturer chooses what goes in the boat bast on budget. This often times leads to awesome gear being under powered.

 

I have no doubt your disappointments can be turned around.

Answer me this a customer came to me with 3 ht amps and had whine all powers came from Common location, ground also changed Amps out to Rockford marine amps no more whining. Both tuned proper as well, Kenwood marine Headunit. And a ws420. I have full belief that the wet sound amps create engine noise. Those amps are honestly the only amps on a boat that I have came across engine noise with the proper wiring installation.